?

Log in

Okay so it seems that in the last entry there was a bit of a… - Honesty, Passion and Knowledge for Lolita [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Honesty, Passion and Knowledge for Lolita

[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

[Nov. 3rd, 2006|10:15 pm]
Honesty, Passion and Knowledge for Lolita
lolita_fashion
[voodoo_harlot]
Okay so it seems that in the last entry there was a bit of a discussion goin on about LOLITA FUCKS and wither or not its really lolita.

Personally I figure if you're going to go ahead and say elitism is a good thing about extending niceties to others you should leave the fucks people alone or cancel your subscription but it seems to me that people are pretty much willing to cross the line or at least turn a blind eye in this exception.

So? What do you think? Exception with reason or not?
linkReply

Comments:
From: candy_butcher
2006-11-04 06:17 am (UTC)
o.o

Blinks.

Was that a jab at me? lol

Well obviously you already know my opinion for it. I skiter back and forth on this particular topic and really I think its a case by case basis. *shrugs*

Good post though, itll be interesting to see what others say. Maybe itll help me make up my mind lol
(Reply) (Thread)
From: voodoo_harlot
2006-11-04 06:19 am (UTC)
Thats why i did it. Jabs again
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: bucktick
2006-11-05 08:16 am (UTC)
I'm confused exactly what post we're talking about here.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: alice_sakurada
2006-11-06 05:37 pm (UTC)
hmmm...this is a tough one. I used to be completely against L_F but then I started watching the posts. While some on there just need a bit of guidance (occasionally some of the outfits aren't THAT bad), most of the outfits posted are from people who make absolutely no attempt to find out what the style is about before labeling themselves lolita.

When I first started watching lolita many years ago the information was not as readily available so I did research, something many people seem to avoid doing, even though now there are many great websites devoted to the fashion.

For me now, I believe that if they are not at least willing to take five minutes to do some research, they are giving permission to be told that they are not lolita.

I admit there are many things I don't know the first thing about when it comes to other fashions or music so it would be ridiculous of me to act like I do. So I believe it is insulting to those who take the time and are passionate about their interests to not take the time to learn about them.

While its possible to take elitism too far, I think we need it just to keep some semblance of coherency within the fashion. Otherwise, its just another fad that means nothing.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: avanindra
2006-11-07 04:03 pm (UTC)
Elitism.

Double Edged Sword

Might seem mean, but it still keeps a standard of what the fashion is.

Ebay is highly guilty of this. If it has vintage, gothic lolita is usually included. The North American fashion of "Sissy" has been mixed up with Gothic Lolita, the styles are already different.

You must find the humor in the community and also, say which are no nos.

Of course, everyone in the community, ignore the factors of personal efforts, opinons, likes and dislikes.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: tsu_nanashi
2006-11-11 12:37 am (UTC)
I was on the community the other day and I feel very insulted by these people. I think it is amuseing to see that they call themselves elitists which means they are number one in lolita and superior but all they want to do is rag on people who haven't got it right yet. They took a picture of my sister, who was not dressing lolita and said she was trying to. We know what lolita is and we were both very offended by these people.

People who claim to know so much about it should know better then to think that she was dressing lolita. If she had been, which she was the precious day, she would have been in my Meta window print one piece. -.-

I think that LOLITA FUCKS is much out of line. I can't expect them because they can't except people for who they are and the mistakes they make.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: tsu_nanashi
2006-11-11 12:42 am (UTC)
Previous*

ALTHOUGH, I do understand where people are coming from saying that research is a very necissary thing and people who just assume without reasearching are almost insulting the rest of us. When I first found lolita fashion, I reasearched it for days because I wasn't sure about what exactly it was. It took a few months after joining EGL here on LJ that I started and completely grasped the concept of EGL and the few non-flexble rules. ^-^
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: alice_sakurada
2006-11-27 04:11 pm (UTC)
yes, the ones who are not in lolita which they post are bad (I don't always agree with L_F), although I have seen more and more the members of L_F calling fails on posts that have nothing to do with the actual fashion or some revenge posts when there is little wrong with the outfits which I believe is a step up from where it used to be.

Its those nonflexible rules that it seems most people want to flex on. Its such a hard line between elitism (I know I am not the be-all, end-all source of Lolita information and still learning things as well) and just accepting anything anyone terms as lolita. If someone asks a serious question or for opinions, they should get a serious answer back without mocking that much I do agree on.

I'm sure your sister was adorable though in the Meta window one piece, It was one of their cuter lines! Some of their styles lately just aren't as adorable as when I first started watching them.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: lanachan
2007-01-16 07:55 pm (UTC)

A Disservice to Lolita Fashion & Culture

I believe communities such as lolita_fucks, lolita_wank, & the like do a disservice to the Lolita fashion community. There is absolutly no reason to belittle, mock, berate, & just plain be rude to people who are trying Lolita fashion & to do so discourages people from attempting the style. It makes it appear that if you can't do Lolita style absolutly perfectly, don't look like you stepped directly out of the Gothic & Lolita Bibles, GosuRori, or other Lolita fasion magaiznes, then what you are wearing is utter crap.

So many of the unspoken rules on lolita_fucks are so arbitrary, but if you break them, there is a tendency to be blackballed. Examples?:

1) Things bought from on-line seamstresses are crap- In The Starlight & AppleSugar come to mind.
2) You're not allowed to find anything Lolita-inspired at retailers in the US, such as Hot Topic or Target.
3) You shouldn't be a fan of anime & manga & especially should not see the clothing designs in anime or manga as Lolita-inspired- Paradise Kiss has nothing to do with Lolita-fashion or EGA-Fashion. The outfits Chii wears in Chobits certainly aren't Lolita-inspired. The dolls in Rozen Maiden look nothing like Lolitas (after all, Lolitas are never suppose to resemble porceline dolls or BJD). The fashions in Godchild look nothing like Lolita. The list goes on.
4) If you buy something that fits a Western body type, it's generally not considered "Lolita enough" because the cut is different than what you would find in Japan. However, if you wear something with a cut from Japan, it is often ill-fitting & so you get mocked. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

It also seems that the lolita_fucks-er does not take into account that... this is not Japan or Asia & as such there are going to be noticable differences between Asian Lolitas & American Lolitas:

1) Sizing is going to be different. Westerners in general simply are not built like Easterners, therefore the fashions that look good on Asians will be less likely to look good on Westerners. But if you get something adapted to fit a western body, it becomes not "Lolita enough" & you are blackballed. Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
2) Western culture has a *lot* greater Gothic influence, so it's natural that Lolita fashion in the West will take some significant influence from Gothic fashion. But when this happens, lolita_fucks-ers become disgusted.

For these reasons, I was actually disturbed by all the rules for the Novala UnBirthday Party. It gave an aire of fakery, like it was meant to say, "HEY LOOK AT US! SEE??? IF YOU HELP BRING LOLITA FASHION & BRANDS TO THE US THEY CAN BE SOLD EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS IN JAPAN & WHEN WE WEAR THEM IT WILL LOOK EXACTLY LIKE IT DOES IN JAPAN OUT OF THE MAGAZINES! SEE SEE SEE!?" I know a lot of the lolita_fucks-ers were thrilled with this because it forced submission to the tight-as-a-corset rules that they love, but I think it is a true disservice to the designers in Japan to let them think that's how it would work, as well as to Lolitas in the West who will be excited to see the boutiques but still could never look right in the clothing sold there.

If we want Lolita fashion to expand in the West then it is not alright to mock people to the point of discouragement for trying it. We can't expect that the same things that will work for Lolita fashion in Asia will work here. We can't expect that Lolita fashion & culture will remain absolutly untouched by Western culture & fashion as it begins to be seen here. As much as there are rules for all fashion types, Lolita included, they shouldn't be so rigid that it becomes a clone of the "better than thou" snobby preppy cliques from high school.
(Reply) (Thread)